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Attendance view during Yannick Gaultier SEO talk at JoomlaDagen 2024

Transcript for What's happening in Search Engines Land? JoomlaDay Netherland 2024 talk

Hi all,

This is the text transcript of my talk at JoomlaDagen 2024 in Tilburg on June 1st. Watch the full video on all that's happening in the land of Search Engines (a lot is...) here.

My name is Yannick Gaultier. I'm from France. I'm here to talk today about search engines and SEO and what's happening. Here are the sponsors of the event. I'm not one of them, but let's, uh, so here there are the people who can make this event happen and please use their extensions, their services.

My own company is called Weeblr.com and I have been involved with Joomla since about 2005. I've been doing extensions mostly in the field of SEO. I had an extension that has been running for 15 years called SH404SEF, which was all about SEO. Since the pandemic, I have completely renewed all these extensions and I'm running a series which are now 4AI, 4SEO, 4SEF, 4Podcasts, 4video, and 4logs. Recently, 4Command. All of them have in common that they are focused on SEO or content, which is basically one and the same.

But today, I'm not going to talk about any of my extensions and I'm not going to talk about detailed SEO. Maybe what you're expecting like, what exactly which settings should I set and how should I set them in J to do good SEO? Because of course, that does not exist. That's usual SEO talk. But today I want to talk about HCU and AIO. Does anyone know, is it familiar to anybody here? Oh, that's excellent, that's excellent.

Yeah, we in the world of SEO, we like acronyms so there'll be a bunch of acronyms. These two is exactly what has been changing over the last two years. The days of the old traditional SEO are really, I mean, we are in the middle of it but it's really changing now. For about 15 years, we've all heard that SEO is always changing and we must adapt to SEO. But in fact, and I've seen that with my extensions SH404SEF and for SEO, it was not really changing like a few details. Whether meta description was important or title was important and how long they could be. Essentially, it was about the same.

But there are two things that are changing now and have been changing recently. It's the willingness or maybe a fight that's happening between search engines and SEO spam. Essentially, that is getting crap results for good queries. You get very bad results, so there's a big fight happening there at the time. Something that's I'm not sure this is, yeah, well you don't see that.

Then the operation of course of what's called generative AI. That's whatever is powering ChatGPT and Gemini and the other solutions that are doing that. These two things are happening at the same time and I want to go through that very quickly. The first battle that's happening is the fight between search engines, mostly Google, and low-quality content spam. The famous HCU, that's an acronym that means helpful content updates.

Over the last five or six years, Google is still working and it's still a search engine and it works, but many people have complained that the results you get from Google have been decreasing in quality. You get poorer results. It's not an established fact but there have been academic studies to try and find out whether Google results were actually getting worse. Some findings show that. Some of the reasons is that SEO techniques have been improving or have been studied so that spammers can get into the results. It's really hard to fight this.

This has been made worse by the appearance of ChatGPT because it's getting easier and easier to produce vast amounts of content that looks good somewhat but is actually spam. For the last two years really, Google has been putting out what they call updates to the algorithms which are either changes to the way they work or systems that run for a limited period of time and sort of clean up the index and clean up their data so that they get less spam and issues.

This is a screenshot from for SEO and it shows you these little Google Icons. This is a period from January last year, so it's roughly a year and a half leading up until today. These lines here are where Google published information about an update they have made to their algorithm or times where they have run for a few days or a few weeks. They have run a special system to clean up their results.

I have a list here but the most famous one is the helpful content update. That means they are trying to favor content that's helpful. It's just by the name. The idea is that they want to fight things that have been only written to get traffic from search engines. Content that's not meant to help actual people but just to get traffic. They have a variation of that for products dedicated to product reviews. Reviews are a big source of spam and general spam updates. Each of these is dedicated to one of these topics except the helpful content update has been running several times.

This culminated in March this year. Probably you haven't heard of that but it was a big fuss because in March they had two updates running: one helpful content update and one spam update. They also said that the helpful content update has now been integrated into the algorithm meaning it will run permanently and always. The result was that a large number of websites, especially big websites, a very large number like hundreds of thousands of them, have essentially disappeared from the results. Because that was not enough, they also applied tens of thousands of manual penalties.

Manual penalties are when the Google system says, "I'm not sure, that site doesn't look good." Somebody from Google, an actual person, looks at it and says, "Yeah, it's bad, it's spam." They press a button and the site is gone. You're not in the index anymore, you completely disappear. It's not impossible to get back but it's really like several months of hard work and communicating with Google to get that manual penalty lifted. If that happens to you, you'll know because you'll be gone from the index, you'll be gone from the search results. In the search console, you'll see a line that says you've been given a manual penalty and your history. You can as well restart a new website because it's really going to be terrible.

Anyways, the point is that there are massive changes in the way they rank websites. One of the things that happened during that March 2024 update, and I think that seems of interest to you, is that one way they thought they could fight spam is by favoring big brands. The idea being that if content is generated by actual people, it's probably better than content generated by AI. They had that super smart idea that maybe if they get content from Reddit or Quora or Stack Overflow, it's written by people so it's good. In that March 2024 update, they favored a lot of content by big brands, forums like Reddit, and forums like Quora. Of course, these are now filling up with crap and it's worse than it was before. The point is that if you're a small company with a small website, it's way harder to rank for your usual keywords and queries. It's evolving.

That March 2024 update is completed after a month so we are just after that and they are getting feedback, of course, from pissed people. It's really changing. I just wanted to mention also in May they enabled a new policy about site reputation abuse which is something that probably enables parasite SEO. That probably does not concern you so much, it's when big sites like Forbes sell the usage of a subdomain of their website to somebody else who does coupons for whatever you want to sell. They are fighting that but I don't expect many people here are running sites with millions of pages and such.

The end result is that websites like House Fresh, an American website, are a typical example. They are a small company, like a family company, and they are like a blog that tests air fresheners. If you're in the US or probably elsewhere as well, you may buy air fresheners that purify the air. It's a big thing and they have a website that just tests them. They are real people testing in their house, like a wife and husband doing that. It was a big website and at the end of March, they essentially disappeared from the results. They were like page 25 and instead, you got pages from Reddit and big websites like the one from New York Times, Wirecutter, things like that. In other words, big websites doing reviews without actually testing things and with just content made for SEO. They are very pissed about that but the end result is that they are essentially gone from the results. They had to fire their employees and make a big fuss about that.

So that's the danger, that's where we are now for smaller companies. The dark side of it, what I call the dark side, is that the low-quality content is still there and some pretend it's on purpose. From Google's standpoint, if the quality of the result is lower, then you spend more time searching. Maybe you have to search once, see the results are not good, you have to search a second time, it's not good. Each time they can show you ads, so it's all good for them, it's all better. There's a rumor, we don't know exactly, but there's an antitrust trial going on in the US against Google which is under the threat of being split in two. The people running the search and the people running the ads because of that sort of thing, but that's we don't know.

So that's the fight against spam which is not working well in my opinion yet.

This only applies to Google search engine or also Bing and the others?

Okay, so what I'm seeing here is from Google. Generally speaking, Bing doesn't care that much. First, because they are smaller, so fewer people use them and if they do something good or bad, it impacts much fewer people. They do fight against spam a lot but then if they succeed, it doesn't impact that many people.

No, but it could be a reason for people who know this to move away from Google and go for others.

Sure, but you don't really move away from Google. For instance, you know that Bing has been a partner of OpenAI and they have integrated search exactly what we're going to talk about now. They have integrated AI-generated content in their results but in the end, that hasn't helped. Essentially, Bing is still about the same, still has about the same market share a year later, a year and a half later. They still have about the same market share so it doesn't really have an impact. What brings traffic to your website is still Google. All these helpful content updates, the fight against spam and so on, that's Google really, it's Google. But I'm sure Bing does something also, we just don't worry too much about what it does really.

The one thing I might mention about that is that if you try to optimize and do SEO for Google or for Bing, essentially you're going to do the same thing as you would be doing for Google. It's anyway about the same thing. The basic principle of the thing, there's no real big difference between the two.


So the second thing that's changing and that's even more worrying but it's just starting so you probably haven't seen that yourself here it's the inclusion of generated AI generated output in the server results.

Um, so this is what's happening starts to happen again it's not happening now I I'll go into the details later but the way the search engines work in Google in particular but here we are talking about both Google and and Bing hasn't changed much. You enter a query they try to understand it and they search within all the documents all the web pages they know about. They try to surface the best one the most the one that best U respond to your query and they show you a list. Well they show you a bunch of ads and then they show you a list of possible response to that so that hasn't changed much over the last 15 years and that hasn't changed at all.

The only exception is Rich Snippets if you know what I'm talking about it's when you have links in response but on the side you may have like if you ask what's the age of Elon Musk then you probably will have something that says uh links but the AG is whatever hedge is his. And that's the only thing and the the the problem with that with the rich stimets that already gives you an answer is that nobody is going to click on your website which has the age of Elon Musk on and that's a problem because you want people to come to your so rich Snippets were already a problem in that they keep they they directly provide the answer to a question and and therefore they don't they send less people to your website. So that's been that's been going on for 10 years or so so it's not I mean we we we live with it.

Now they have generated generated uh they have the ability to generate Fuller answer and that's changing things. Google is just starting because they are bigger and and many eyes are looking at them so they may they may they must be more careful Bing has been doing that for a while this so this is for those of you who don't open Bing very regular on a regular basis this is how it looks you ask no I don't see anything here uh uh highlighter so no sorry this so uh you ask a question you got your typical results this is more like a rich snippet where they show you an excerpt of a website and you got results here they also have like people also ask that question that's five people also ask but then on the side they generate a fuller answer. This is the principle of AI generated thing and uh you can see almost immediately that if the question is the age of Elon Musk then it's not going to be a big problem but if you have a more complex question and they provide here a full answer then actually nobody is going to go to your website.

So Google is starting with has just started with that in May 2023 this is the first or second acronym that I mentioned they started with SG that was search generated something I don't know and it worked like that you had a query and they had here a full full you know screen wide full full width uh answer area answer here with links to some websites which was better than than being at the sign it was an experiment you had to be it was only for English uh request only in the USA only in Chrome and you had to be logged into your Google account so you probably haven't seen that.

Now since yeah somewhere a somewhere in April they have started a new version which is called aiio this is the one you're going to hear about soon uh aiio it's AI overviews uh it's still only in the US for now it's still only for English queries and it's more often in Chrome but you don't have to be logged in so it happens you can you can see that if you use a VPN you can get some of these and they show that usually for more complex queries so if you if you ask for the age of Mark deev which is probably somewhere in Google right I don't know uh you still have a rich snippet but if you have some if you ask about something more complex I think I have yeah I I'll show you some example they'll probably generate a full answer.

I just mentioned here that the news news types of content seems to be excluded from that because it needs to be fresh and and really really recent so this is how it looks uh you have about the same thing you've got your query here I asked about uh why do we have why do we see Northern Lights and where they come from and how often do you see them so it's a more complex query and typically if you have a website uh with some on that topic astronomy whatever atmospheric effects you probably want somebody to come to your side but here what they are doing is that they are generating a full a full answer here and then below you've got the more traditional results.

So this is I made several screenshots so you can see below that there is also a people also ask and you've got the links so the links are still there now if we look at the uh if I open up the AI generated answer you have you have the answer you know it's a full answer something they could find maybe on your site and but you do have links here you do have links to two or three websites with relevant answer and they say this is where we took the answer from maybe they did maybe they didn't we don't we don't really know. I have plenty of so I'm sorry I have plenty of things to say so I'm going quite fast I hope I can finish in time but U we'll see and so this is a this is a zoom on the Carousel of the links so you can see there are two or three things the one thing that happens that takes people uh off guard a little bit is that and that's I mean you do your website for instance if you're in more in you want to promote jumla or you want your BMW and you want to promote the BMW cause uh there's something that happens a lot with these kind of insert is that when you ask a question they reply the the AI generated answer replies to the question but it also says more like in this example which is quite famous if you ask how good are BMW cars the system will answer in Google uh they are very good they are reliable oh but they also cost a lot and and maintenance is high and the cost of tires is very bad and and that sort of thing so it's very it's very tricky and marketers kind of you know they don't really know what's what to do with that.

Uh and of course because it's Ai and it hallucinates there already a collection of things it said that probably it should not have said like this one is probably the the most famous like uh somebody ask you know my my in my pizza the cheese is not sticking to the pizza what should I do and it answer yeah put glue in it that's that sort of thing or it can say things like uh how much these particular set of headphones weigh and this headphones weighs uh $349 uh or this one how many insects are in Tropicana orange juice and it happily it happily replied that on average there are two insects per serving of uh Tropic and you know juice so if you are running a Big Brand it's kind of a it's kind of an issue but I think this will be sorted out anyway.

This is brand new this is just for the last couple of months but people have already tried to measure how how big an effect it has and the the answer we don't have much data of course and uh it varies a bit with the with the what the type of website and the type of of research but typically these AI generated answers will appear from anywhere from 10% to 30% of the of the queries so it's not always there it's only when they ju when they think the queries the query justifies a fully detail Ander generated from from AI. Again it's not always same thing like uh there's there's one recent study that in the domain of Health like how do I fix or where do migraine came from how do I fix this particular health problem they found that 42% of the time there was an actual AI generating query and that's that's one thing but for us we which are we are concerned with SEO I'm going to skipe over that because it's it's more details about what sort of words can trigger uh an ni uh but that's where we have contradicting information.

You remember there's an AI generated answer and there are links the one we are interested in because they might lead back to our websites and depending on the topic these links they are either from websites that rank number one two and three which you would kind of expect or there are links going to pages to websites that don't rank normally they are not at all in the first results of the uh of the traditional search results so that's very odd but generally speaking uh there is uh like for this one was more generic it founds that there's a there's a strong correlation near to 1.9 between sites showing up in the top 10 results and sites shown in the AI generated uh answer okay so there's that correlation.

Uh yeah so your links maybe the website the link to your website are still shown but do you get clicks do do people actually click so this particular study again it's just one found that if your website is mentioned in the AI generated results then you get less click about about less about 9% less clicks that than before there was uh this AI generated response but if you if your site is not mentioned in the car in the Carousel of links then you get you you do lose clicks but much less only 3% so one way or the other you're going to lose clicks it seems except when you don't because there is a number of cases where you actually get more clicks typically because this is an area which we have more data because people are more interested in the domain of e-commerce if you're selling stuff with your website if your site is mentioned in the link you're going to get more clicks than if you're not mentioned in the U in the in the AI generated answers and probably very simply because the reason is simple and logical is that uh they put only two or three links in front of the people in a big box like that so that's probably where the if if people are going to click they're going to click on these three and they're not going to scroll all the way down to find other pages so you're going to get uh in that case.

Uh yeah okay so it's a more complex it's a more complex uh uh table to look at especially if it's really small but in depending on the kind of query she found that's Aleyda Solis very wellknown uh SEO specialist between one and 9% more click more clicks for the people who were mentioned in the AIO search results and she also found that there was a correlation between the people who were the website who were ranking well in traditional results and appearing in the uh in the AI answers.

So a summary of that on impact on your traffic it's really early it's not even in Europe we don't know how it's going to work out here still an experiment the impact varies a lot depending on the sector sometimes you get less click but you might also expect more click clicks if you are displayed so that's very important. Uh there may be more clicks but they will likely go to less websites so the competition is going to be probably becoming even more harder and there's a small difference here in e-commerce that products are directly shown I discussed that with Nicolas so if you are into e-commerce the links that are shown in this Carousel in the AI ins they are never links to a category page or or something like that they are almost always directly to a product page directly to a shoe you are selling or whatever you're selling so that's a little bit different from traditional search results and of course the question either you're sleeping now or what do we do and uh again yeah maybe I'm too cautious but there's there's really uh not much data to to confirm.

on average or typically you could you could think that when it comes to when it's IED because it will be generalized there is no doubt about that to all languages and to all regions so the first the first thing we see is that these AI generated answers are for uh very generic and more complex queries meaning it's only maybe 10 to 20% of the of the queries and which means the traditional results traditional SEO is still good for 80% of queries so that's that's one thing. now okay maybe I I didn't give you the conclusion but the conclusion is that SEO will still be exactly as important as before maybe not the same SEO but SEO is exactly as important as before because because first the AI generated answers are only for 20% at most of the queries meaning 80% is still traditional isue and even for these results here the AI generated uh there's a correlation we've seen that likely the people the websites that are mentioned in the links are still the one are about the the same as the one who are number one number two like like in the top 10 so still it's SEO because uh Google and Bing they they work the same way they still doing they are still search engines they are still doing a search but the AI generated answer is a AI is a generated answer based on the result of the search so you you still have to do SEO.

Sorry about that now how what SEO that's a more complex question and I have gathered here a few things that you you should uh maybe obsessed about it's content quality number one. it's been clear in the last few years that in the last especially last two years that they rely Google especially relies less and less each day on links so links because links are a big source of spam because before if you had many links from you know big sites and even know not so big sites it will help you rank a lot meaning you could buy links you could do a few things to many things to to get links and that would they would not be able to uh identify that properly and they would rank sites that are low quality so they have reduced the importance of links dramatically and they focus on the actual content of your pages so you should focus on the content quality.

Now of course uh what does that mean we don't really know but I'm sure you all focus on the quality of your content every day so that doesn't help much. one way that I've been putting it Google mostly is that what information does your content bring to the world so if you're writing excellent content very well written by by human and everything uh but it's in the end it's about the same as what there's like 1,000 websites with about the same information brought to the world you you are unlikely to to to to make it to the top of the search results so all of this is not about having H1 H2 a good meta description or uh using main keywords and so the thing you need to focus on now from now on and you probably did is bringing content that's not everywhere bringing content that brings value brings information to your visitors and they can't really find elsewhere.

I put it this way whether you use AI or not for that it does not really matter there's a danger when you use AI it's that AI tends to create really generic content and because everybody is using AI then if I ask AI to generate an article or something and somebody else my competition is is doing the same thing you're probably going to end up with this about the same concept so it's not about using AI to write but it's about the end result and the other thing that's really important is that you need to have probably more content. uh they one one way some specialist put it is cover more ground so if you sell shoes maybe you need now to start writing about things that are around the area of selling shoes and and and the shoes themselves because that's going to help you establish as a kind of a reference something essentially again that's not available elsewhere there's a strong it appears there's a strong focus on the overall website uh quality or authority something that has existed but it's it's becoming public now we know a bit more about it so it's it's not just your pages but it's the entire website that that matters and if you have contents that's not found anywhere else then that helps.


I'm not going technical here I don't want to do that but in terms of things you should obsess about again it's not about H1 H2 or metad description good simple HTML few JavaScript good structure data that's been a constant for the last few years and it's still the case structur data they are they they think they are smart Google and everything but they are not that much so they still need structured data to understand what your page is about and some details about the page like pricing and and topics and uh good speed obviously craw ability.

Check your search console report to know if your if Google and Bing can craw your site U whatever issue they they find your robots. text is blocking things typically your your CSS don't don't block CSS or JavaScript they need that uh focus on internal linking how you link Pages inside your your website so that each page comfort so that some pages comfort each other.

It's again it's it's a whole Topic in itself I don't want to get into that but how you link Pages inside your site is really important and also and that's difficult to do uh if you have lots of content but some content has no value just hide it no index it hide it make it sure that they don't look at it because it's a waste and it kind of a do you mean no index I mean hide it you you put no index either you excluded no you don't do that sorry I was going to say something wrong you add a meta robots no index to these Pages you don't you don't and that's just what I was saying and that's totally wrong you should not excluded with a robots. text you should put a no index tag if you want.

Let's say you you have a foron your site and the Foris full of you know crap content Jes bad jokes and everything it doesn't have it's your customers so you have to like them but uh that's bad content that's bad content you don't want Google to index that so you you you know index the whole thing simply you know index the whole thing I mean don't know index all forums because some can be good I'm just saying if it's if it's not low quality content you know index it if you know index it that is you add a meta robots no index for these Pages then you need not you must not exclude your Forwith robots. text because if you exclude your Forwith robots. text then Google is not going to look at your Forpages and it won't see the no index tag that's a common mistake.

If you know index you know index that has nothing to do with with crawling and robots of text if you add a no index tag they must be able to see that no index tag therefore they must be able to craw the site and you should not exclude it from robot. stext that's the small technical enter uh yeah remove the contents that's bad because it reflects it reflects poorly on your website quality a thing you should not spend time and not obsess about don't don't obsess about your website speed I have I'm very proud of this phrase which I made up just like yesterday good is good but better is not better so have a good speed be happy about it don't spend like days trying to get 100% on whatever tool you're using to measuring that because first the tool is not measuring properly it's not what they use to measure speed anyway they use your actual visitors Chrome uh browser to measure speed so whatever you want to do on on for Google B is not going to work and it's not going to help and in addition the speed speed is really is really a low importance Factor it doesn't matter it's good for your users so you need to have a fast website but don't obsess and spend days and weeks on that.

Don't obsess on sit maps for small websites because it's sometimes you need extension to do that and and a site Maps is not needed for a small site like if you have the document the official documentation for Google says you need a site map if you're above if your site has more than 500 pages so if you have if your has five has 20 Pages don't bother about sitemap and had in an extension or anything it's it serves no purpose at all uh don't spend my my personal pet peeve don't spend days writing meta description it's not used has no purpose it is not used for ranking uh it may help in the search results okay but search but the meta your metad description in traditional results they are shown less than 30% of the time so what your spending hours writing is not used most of the time and with uh with AI overview they are just simply not used at all so yeah keep that in mind opinion May varies but I would suggest also to consider other avenues social media of course uh newsletters video on YouTube video on your site video on YouTube linking between the two having a channel if you can do that I mean no not it doesn't apply to everybody but if you can do that that's going to help uh podcasting so video and podcasting these are other ways to send your message across and send you the information you want to pass to your visitors and customers across so that's those are good ways.

And then there's one question that you need to ask yourself U and I had don't I don't have an answer for that it's should you block search engines and and people like chat GPT and and Company like chat GPT should you should you block your content from them should you allow uh Gemini from Google and uh and open AI to train their model on your content that's question you have to ask yourself there are there are metadata instructions you can put into your in your robots. text to block at least these companies that are respectful of robots. text uh but the big ones are uh but but you have to put these instructions now because they are actually training their models now so if you don't want your content to be used by CH GPT uh and jini then now is the time to to block it but most likely you actually want your content to be used for training these models because some people will keep asking Google for answers but many people also already consider CH gbt and gini as search engines which are which they are not and so many people are asking CH GPT about uh what are the best shoes for running uh in the in the snow or whatever if anybody is willing to run in the snow for some reason and so uh maybe you want your maybe you want your content to be used for training these models but that's different from sunch engines but that's a question you want to ask like if you have copyrighted content for instance maybe you want to block them or maybe not I don't know that's really up to you but if you do then there are things you can add in your robots. text to to block them.

Okay so sort of a summary conclusion uh you should direct efforts to SEO but I think mostly content related SE increasing increasing and improving the quality and increasing the the size of the content you have some some people say that you you should have better content that's maintained over the long time that's the only thing that can keep you in the game for for the SEO that's coming I would advise that you actually you know monitor the situation because the things are changing as we speak like I said what I try to bring here to the table is something that's happening with Google in the US only so unless you use a VPN you're not going to see that here but it's going to happen probably in 2024 maybe in 2025 they need to fix the problem they need to maybe the department of Commerce in the US and the trial they are undergoing is going to they're going to be split in two and there's going to be two Googles uh so we don't know that but unless that happen they're going to be AI generated company uh results in Google France and Google Netherlands and all these probably in the next 12 month so I would encourage you to to follow Pro people on Twitter follow some SEO podcasts there's a YouTube Google office hours where there will talk reg regularly on these things so I encourage you to just monitor that because it's where you can find the information.

And then after the conclusion there's a post conclusion U personal bonus steps I said but I like that SL it's from it's from a a year and a half back but I have a couple of personal advices about SEO and it's it's all summarized here do nothing rather than do wrong uh don't play with canonical tags if you don't know what they what they mean and what they if you're not sure about what they do don't play with redirect don't play uh like writing good page titles and description is hard uh that sort of thing so better no sit map than a wrong one because a Sit map has a purpose but uh if you don't do it right you might end up with the opposite of what it's for uh Don't Mess too much with robot. text just keep the jumla one it's okay there's no it's fine and if you're in doubt just leave it to them Google and and Bing they're usually going to be able like don't add canonic yeah one thing if you have pagination you know category with pagination don't put a canonical on page two page three page four that points at the start you don't want to do that you need you have several Pages they need to index it and be able to access it so that's an example if you don't know what you're doing don't don't do anything wrong because you can have very quickly very negative effects.

And then that's just for reference I have a few Twitter accounts and things like that that you can that you can follow uh sorry and that's [Applause] it do we have do we have time okay you can do the other half no I have to rest so we do you have any question or oh okay yeah yeah can you smile for the picture I'm not there you know but these are just examples you can probably I would recommend like these two guys search engine land it's not opinionated really so it just essentially summarize every news that's going that's happening through into the SEO world so if you follow if you follow this guy or this is the editor for this if you follow that you'll be probably up to speed to to what's happening okay thank you thank you thank you again